Marjorie Barrick Museum Podcast

Wesley Knight 0:00
This is a KUNV studios original program. The following is special programming aired in collaboration with the Marjorie Barrick Museum of Art on the campus of UNLV, and does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.

Deanne Sole 0:26
Hello there, and welcome to the Marjorie Barrick Museum of Art radio show and all podcast. My name is Deanne, and I am here today with Davey Parks and Sarah Jean Odam. How are you guys? I'm doing good. How are you? Doing good, good. Feeling pretty good. I'm doing well. All right. They are both docents for the museum's K through 12 field trip program, which we call Bus to Barrick. So I'm going to start, well, we're going to go on and have a little conversation about Bus to Barrick. But I thought I'd start by asking them just to introduce themselves, Davey, you've been on the show before. I think it was a couple of months. Was it last time or a couple of months ago?

Davey Parks 1:06
I think it's probably been a few months. Yeah, since our last recording, I am now a graduate of the UNLV film program, which is pretty cool. And yeah, I work here at the Marjorie Barrick Museum of Art, and I'm very proud of it to say I feel very connected to UNLV through what I do at the museum, and I'm really glad to be here.

Deanne Sole 1:28
Fantastic. What about you, Sarah?

Sara Odam 1:31
I'm also very glad to be here. I am a painter and a teacher. I also teach at UNLV. I teach intermediate painting, and at the museum, I love, I just love all of it. I love doing all the things at the museum and the people. And the Bus to Barrick program has been such a joy, and it's been very lovely. So I'm excited to talk about it, and I love working with Davey, so it's hopefully going to be a natural conversation.

Deanne Sole 2:02
That's fantastic. I mean, I'm I'm obviously not a docent, but I see you guys at work, and you look like you're having a good time, the students look like they're having a fabulous time. So I'm really looking forward to hearing a bit more about what goes on in the gallery when you're in there with them. All right, shall we start at the beginning what is and either of you can answer this, or both of you at once, in a sort of confused mess, what is Bus to Barrick.

Sara Odam 2:28
Oh, I see I'm going to answer that question. So Bus to Barrick, I will try to explain, to the best of my ability, there is a special grant receipt that the museum received to to, actually, it's money that was raised through the auction, right, yeah.

Deanne Sole 2:49
But the thing, I think the auction, I think the one the auction is paying for is in full, okay, yeah. And really confused about it's funded. It's the important thing.

Sara Odam 2:58
The important thing is that it's free for CCSD schools to be bused from their school to the Barrick. Hence the name Bus to Barrick, and it provides an opportunity for Yeah, K through 12 age students to get to go to a museum, which is unfortunately a rare occasion in in Vegas, and so they come to the museum, and we do since we'll give them a tour of whatever show is on view, and also lead a workshop that somehow is related to the work. And it's about a two hour time that we have with them, and it's it's a lovely ride each time. It's always very different, and it's really fun to experience different age groups and different schools viewing the same exhibition, and we get to see the same exhibition many times over through the eyes of the students. It's great.

Deanne Sole 4:01
Yeah, I love, always, love that about tours, as you get people saying such diverse things about the same work. It's amazing. Davey, did that sound pretty good to you? Yeah, I remember we we came up with it because we did discover that the cost of bus transport was the main thing that was stopping schools from coming to the museum. You know, we we asked them, once upon a time, why don't we see more of, you know, your classes here on field trips? We'd love to give you field trips. And they said, well, the school has to pay for the bus, and that's an expense. So that's when we really set out to say, Okay, let's raise some funding, and let's bring, bring some kids here, because that's really important, like you said. Sarah, alright, so how, how did you become? Bus to Barrick, docents. Davey, can we start with you? How did that happen?

Davey Parks 4:52
Yeah. So it started way back on a summer day in 2002 when I was born.

Sara Odam 4:57
Born today. Yeah.

Davey Parks 5:00
Yeah, it's funny. I originally when I first signed on, way back when I became a volunteer at the museum, I was asked if giving tours was something I was interested in, and I said, No, absolutely not. But slowly, through getting more familiar with more of the exhibitions that were there at the museum, I realized that I just kind of naturally had a sort of knack for talking to people about the artwork. And so I started giving tours, primarily to the college classes that would come through, and I really enjoyed the conversational nature of them. And then that sort of worked its way into, you know, occasionally you would have senior care facilities stopped by, and they would have tours, and I would kind of lead the tour for them when, you know, you Deanne, weren't available for, you know, whatever reason. And then that slowly, kind of made me really appreciate what it took to give tours. And so when we were putting together the kind of program for what we wanted to do for the workshop and the tour for a previous exhibition cycle with Ex votos, I kind of popped on as one of the main docents, and I really got into it that way. And since then, it's just developed a sort of love I have for getting to share the artwork and getting to sort of walk people through, not just the artworks themselves, but kind of, like, broader or wider topics in the arts with high schoolers, like, I specifically really love talking about the different, like career options they have in the art industry, beyond, just like, you know, making sales in a gallery, talking to them about what an art handler does, or, like, the difference between graphic designers and artists and architects and all these different kind of things that go hand in hand. And then, more recently, without, you know, getting too much into the exhibition right away, but talking to people about abstract art and what that means, and sort of the value, the different values between abstract and realist art. So, yeah, it's become something that I really have enjoyed to do over these last few months.

Deanne Sole 7:06
That's awesome. Sarah, how about you? Is it similar for you?

Sara Odam 7:10
Yeah, there's a lot that resonates. And I'm just as you were talking, I was thinking about, I don't know, just the different paths that one can take in just your working life, you know, and and getting to ending up being a docent at the Barrick was very organic experience for me, where, you know, a lot of these things come out of need and logistics. And a practical thing. And a practical thing was that I needed another job in addition to another job, one thing as an artist, you you kind of have to cultivate this mind frame that you kind of always have two full time jobs. If you have a skill that you're committed a craft that you're committed to, you also need to fund your life. And so there's lots of ways of doing that, and sometimes that means having many side jobs or one full time job. In my case, I've done all the things, and what I like is having a few different jobs and but they're all connected to art and so teaching, giving the the tours at the museum, and then making work, it all connects. And I feel like I get to with giving the tours and walking through a museum exhibition many times over, slowly looking over many days and a few months. Really, I get to bring all the different parts of me as an artist, as a teacher, sometimes as a mother, because we're working with small children, and then also with the other like with the colleagues. It's you know, they're fellow artists and thinkers and do work in different art forms, and the conversation always feels very alive, and that's one of the things I really like about working with Davey and the others. We get to, like, debrief after we give these tours, and just talk about social dynamics with the kids, but then also their relationship to the artwork, which then, you know, influences our relationship to the artwork, and then that always leads to these bigger conversations. And so it just always feels like this very alive experience. And I often, when I leave, I feel very filled up. I have a million ideas, and I feel really grateful to be able to, yeah, to do it. And so, yeah.

Deanne Sole 9:52
Oh, that's totally fabulous. That's amazing. Okay, and I know you guys both got trained before you were allowed near the children. So can you talk a little bit about that? What was the training and what was that like?

Davey Parks 10:08
We kind of do a new set of training for each exhibition that comes through because of the different nature of the artworks. A lot of times we start with the artworks themselves, and kind of work through, you know, how, how would we talk to an elementary school student about this piece? How do we talk to a high school student about this piece? And we kind of go through and we look at the artworks, and we kind of tend to pick a few that kind of work in order of, like a sequence of, you know, we can start with this one, and then move to this one and move to this one. But, you know, there's always going to be something, and that's part of kind of being a good dasa is being able to be very flexible. You know, a lot of times there will be something that just kind of, kind of throws a curve ball at you, and you have to go from there. So it's all about really just developing a familiarity with a lot of the artworks and the artists that we're talking about. And the really great thing, like Sarah said, is, you know, you always leave with a million ideas, so you kind of get to implement those as you go along, which I always think is really fun. There'll be things that someone will say or do, and I'll just start using that in all the future ones, which is really exciting, and it's always changing. It's this very malleable thing, which I really like.

Sara Odam 11:30
So, yeah, I can feel that too. It is a it's part of the live feeling of the whole thing is that even, you know, we do have these conversations where we concretely talk about, okay, we're gonna hit these points, and with this age group, we're not gonna look at these, but we're gonna focus on these, whatever. We kind of have a little huddle before the tours and then. But I can sort of feel our all like our influence on each other based on the experience that we're having.

Davey Parks 11:59
I liken it a lot to like improv theater, because like, you'll like, there will be a piece that, like everybody loves, and it's like, really easy to talk about. And then maybe you'll get a group who, just for whatever reason, does not connect with the piece, and you have to find a new way to get them to engage with it, or just kind of start from scratch and find a different piece that maybe they're more interested in, and kind of figure out what about something is appealing to them, and what is it, and just kind of going from there.

Sara Odam 12:31
Completely. And that involves, I think, yeah, a lot about, I guess, an improv, not that I've ever done it, but you have to read the room, yeah. And so you have to be very sensitive to read the teachers. You have to read the kids. You have to kind of have a sense of the of childhood development and what their needs are like. For instance, today, we had third through fifth graders, and we split them. You know, with each tour, we're in two different groups. And so we break down a smaller group of 50 into two groups of 25 and that's just helps with management. And I think sometimes even there is an interesting place for us to compare notes afterwards, because for whatever reason, one group of 25 had a completely different personality than the other group. Today, my group was very active, eager, excited, and you could feel that energy right away, enough where I was like, realized, Oh, I think that this group would benefit from, when we talk about each artwork actually having a seat on the floor just because their bodies are clearly showing they need to, like, move and shake. But we have to kind of think about the artwork and the whole group. And it sounded like your group today was much quieter.

Davey Parks 13:51
Yeah, very much more, I would say, like, introspective. Yeah. They really like to take their time with like each piece, and in a given semester, we will give 30 variations of the same tour, because, you know, the way you would talk to a high school AP art class is very different than how you're going to talk to maybe just like a general class of middle schoolers who have maybe never taken an art class before, and you're going to talk to them very differently than you will talk to a group of fourth graders who are learning about, you know, photo collage. So with each group, you know, you sort of tweak things and figure out how to meet them at their level, which is kind of the challenge, but also kind of the exciting part of it.

Sara Odam 14:35
Exactly. And on that thread, it makes me think of one group we had probably three weeks ago where, and this is something just developed over time through experience that it seems to help to quickly check in with the teacher to find out what kind of class this is, if it's an art club or whatever. And in this case, it was a theater teacher, and it was one of the first times we had a group who was drama focused, and she had very clear projects that they were working on and and then there was within that same big group, I think it was in our class, a separate those two different groups. And then it became clear we should separate the theater kids and the art kids, because they're gonna it's going to be a different conversation. Yeah, and that ended up being so great because in that case, the theater kids had so much to talk about regarding movement and the body and relationship to the lines and shapes and colors they were seeing on these canvases that we didn't even go to the workshop, because there, the conversation was so alive, and so that was in the moment, kind of again, reading the room and recognizing what they needed and what they were benefiting from, whereas I think your group maybe felt a little bit more of the standard what we've been doing, but that fit their needs, yeah, and just taking that second in the Beginning, just it's like you have to know your audience, yeah.

Deanne Sole 16:05
You just mentioned the workshop. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because you've talked about the tour, like talking about the works. What is the workshop?

Sara Odam 16:12
Well, the workshop, yeah, and this might be an opportunity for me to talk about the the different, the different forms that this whole program can take based on the show. Because when I hopped into ex votos to where the workshop was already every the structure was already in place, so I was learning what was already there and adapting to what was in place. And in that case, each student was to make their own ex voto, which I don't know if you want to explain what an ex voto is.

Deanne Sole 16:48
Narrative, self referential picture. Should we leave it at that?

Sara Odam 16:52
Sure, we described it as an analog Instagram post where you'd have like, an image and text. And so in that case, the workshop looked very different than what the workshop this time looked like, looks like. So that was a piece of paper with crayons and pencils and markers and drawing basically, and telling a story and, you know, basically reaching for some kind of narrative. Yeah, narrative thing this time the workshop, which is all what we're doing this time is an abstract collage. So it's cut pieces of paper and pieces of string and canvas, just a pencil, not all the pencils, scissors, different, like those crinkle scissors and little vinyl stickers, and it's pretty open ended, and it's in just sort of what organically came about as we were all installing the show and dreaming of like, well, what could this workshop look like? And and then it just kind of grew again, organically through conversation and testing out, like, what might be possible. And it's been so interesting to just like, in this case, the workshop happens in the gallery space, whereas last time it was in the in the lobby area. So it's like they went and looked at the thing, looked at the show, and then came out. And it was kind of a separate experience. And we wanted to test, well, what if they got to make in the same space that they were looking and we also adapted the order last, last fall. We did half the group who did the tour first and then the workshop, the other, the other group did the reverse, and we started seeing that there was more benefit to seeing the show first and then making and so we devised a way to do it so that everybody could have that experience. And it's worked out really well. I think it's been, it's like an experiment, yeah?

Deanne Sole 18:53
I think so too. I think it's been really successful, yeah, and it's, I mean, one of the reasons I think it was able to work so well with this show is that it was a painting show, so you had lots of space for the workshop tables, yes, in the middle of the room. And I know when we've been talking about curating the next show, so the show that will happen in fall, we've now been kind of consciously factoring that into the curation design. So okay, we've got more sculptures in this upcoming show, so we're looking at them saying, Well, where can we put the workshop tables? Because it worked out so well having the tables in the gallery, I think ideally we'd love to keep doing that. Yeah, it really did do something for the workshop experience.

Sara Odam 19:38
It's amazing, even today, seeing he was probably a third or fourth grader who didn't say anything during the tour. He started making a collage that was an almost direct one to one copy of one of Yoko's paintings, the one that's called Alone. And he just was quietly he just sat right across from it, and you could just see him, like, slowly taking in that painting and as you try to translate it. And that's the best, like, for me, that's like the best way to learn totally,

Davey Parks 20:12
I've seen some creativity from students that, like rivals professional artists, that I've seen in galleries, like the the the things that these kids will do. There was one piece that it was a group of, I think, fifth or sixth graders, and they made a they each took their pieces of paper, yeah, the title of the piece was Collaboration, and they had strung different strings throughout multiple different pieces of paper that they each individually worked on, so creating one larger piece. And it's just the things that these kids will do. When you just give them materials and time just to do what they want to do, it's always very fascinating, and you can always just get a sense of how unique each kid is, because, you know, maybe one kid will really run with the geometric shapes and take something up and start making an abstract drawing. Another kid will just be very interested in sea otters, and so the page will just be all sea otters, but it's very cool. And one of my favorite things is, you know, when they're doing the art, just kind of walking circles around the table and asking them about their choices, and they're almost always very confident in their answers. And I just, I love seeing kids feel really confident with their art, which is really exciting, yeah.

Sara Odam 21:30
Which, and that makes me think about something I've just been thinking about a lot in this whole experience, is just reflecting on my own experience as a student and getting into art. And I remember just those one or two teachers along the way that just said the right thing, where they saw potential in me and encouraged me. And I just really, you really, just need one person to like, notice and and even if you have others that are telling you maybe go into economics or whatever, you really just need that one, and that can be enough to, like, put the wind in your sails. And so I start thinking, Who knows if I'll see these kids again? We have two hours with them, and even if they say nothing and have no active response that I can see that they're into it at all. I can just be committed to being that one person, that one voice that says you should keep making stuff, you know, or like, I like, how you put these two things together. It's very interesting. And looking them in the eye and just, you know, letting them be seen and heard somehow, and hoping that that does something.

Deanne Sole 22:47
Do you aim for that kind of detail when you do respond? So rather than just say, Oh, that looks good, you say, I like these two shapes in proximity, that particular thing.

Sara Odam 22:57
Very much so. And I'm, I'm also a trained Montessori teacher, and this was one of the things that you you never just give blank, empty praise. You point to the thing, whatever the work is that the students doing. And you might just, you make a lot of, I notice statements like, I notice you put this red next to this green. And sometimes just saying that will make them say, Oh yeah. I was thinking about grass and hearts instead of feeding them like, Oh, this looks this looks like, yeah, or good job, which is like, what does that mean? Yeah. So it's, it's being more specific and tying it to their intention.

Davey Parks 23:39
And even outside of the workshop, some of the interpretations that the kids bring to the artworks are just incredible. One of my favorite classes we had was a sixth grade group of gifted and talented students, and there was one student who just had the most incredible observations of the artworks that I heard from anybody, not just, you know, like students, but like even like adults. They were talking about the unfinished circles in Yoko's work and and potential that those might be the physical manifest, not his words, exactly, but they might be, you know, unfinished thoughts or feelings of the artist. And kind of one thing that we've employed in this round of the tours as we give each kid a prompt, and the prompt will kind of be something like, you know, find an artwork that makes you think of a friend, or find an artwork that, you know, makes you laugh. And this kid got one of the notes that said, find an artwork that says something about compassion. And he walked up to one of the pieces in the gallery. It's a very simple piece. It's kind of a big blue swirl. And he looked at it, and with his like full confident breath was like, this piece makes me think of compassion because I'm looking. Into this piece, and the piece looks like an eye, and the eyes looking back at me. And I think this is when we kind of gave one big tour with, like, all of us together. And like we were all kind of like our brats were taken away. And again, this kid was in the sixth grade, and he just, like, had this, like, very artistic interpretation of this work that I was so just, like, taken away by and, yeah, there's just, like, things that the kids will say that just will change completely change how I view a piece, even to the point where, like, there's works and in the show that maybe I wasn't too fond of, but then after hearing them talk about it, like, this is my favorite piece in the show, so yeah.

Sara Odam 25:40
I love all that stuff. It's so good. That's brilliant.

Deanne Sole 25:43
And Davey, I'm just thinking back to when you mentioned the sea otters. Do you ever have any of the kids who insist on not doing abstraction but doing realism? Like, no, I'm gonna draw a sea otter.

Davey Parks 25:55
very frequently. You know, oftentimes we'll get like, AP students, and they're very interested in refining their, like, technical skill, you know, from getting their shading right, being able to draw something like that. But very often, they'll start with something like that, and then they'll start using certain things, like the materials that we have to kind of play with it. So, like, they'll draw, like, a very realistic picture of a face. And then, you know, maybe they have half an hour to draw or make their artwork, and that maybe took them 15 minutes. So then they'll start getting playful with it. They'll take the string and they'll put it where the hair is, or they'll take some vinyl and cut it up and start making a mosaic out of the face. So I do think walking them through the gallery and getting to show them the artwork does sort of kind of prime them, even if they do prefer to do more realist drawings, given the opportunity, they'll start kind of playing with things, which I think is really fun to watch.

Deanne Sole 26:54
That's fantastic. Sarah, have you had much pushback against abstraction?

Sara Odam 26:58
Yeah, and it's been so fascinating in a lot of ways, we, I wouldn't say, invite it, but we allow it or engage with that, and because that's important, like you're not, you know, we leave it very open in the beginning and clear that we want it to be a conversation, and we want to hear what they actually think, And we're not going to tell them what to think.

Davey Parks 27:23
I very much so appreciate it when the student feels confident enough. That's sort of when I know that I'm kind of doing things right. Is when a kid feels confident enough to tell me that maybe he doesn't like one of the works that we're talking about, or maybe she thinks that the piece is fairly basic or simple, because that's sort of what invites a conversation about the value of abstraction.

Sara Odam 27:45
Yeah. Very exciting, yeah. And I can think, I think maybe just two weeks ago, there was this really lovely instance in which I can't remember if it was middle schoolers. They're the ones that have the most resistance, and it's very interesting. But there was one student who picked out one of the paintings responding to the prompt, find an artwork you dislike, and she said this one, and she pretty much just said, I don't know. I don't get it. And then shrugged. And then what was fascinating was that her friend who was standing next to her, they were clearly like, two pair, a pair was like, Well, I like, he jumped in and started saying what he saw in it. And then three other people, you know, saw other things. And then at the end, I just came back to her. I'm like, Oh, do you see this differently? Now? Is there has anything changed? And you could even feel in her body just a relaxation and a warmth toward the painting and a willingness to be like, Oh yeah, I do see what they're saying. And maybe I like, maybe it's okay. And if that's, if that's the journey they go on.

Deanne Sole 28:49
Great, awesome.

Davey Parks 28:50
Beyond talking about that, just to add in real quick, we had a thing with two works of art where, you know, the students couldn't figure out which one they liked and which one they didn't like. And I gave them this question of, you know, if these two artworks were people, which one would you rather be friends with? And they immediately understood. So it's all just about kind of meeting them at their level and having it in a conversational way.

Deanne Sole 29:14
Awesome. Okay, well, that's, I think, the end of our conversation for today. Thank you so much, guys. Sarah, I think you were right about the funding coming from the auction I've been thinking about. I get so mixed up, I know all right. Well, thank you very much. Sarah and Davey, thank you. Thank you for those sending. It's been beautiful to watch you both.

Sara Odam 29:32
Thank you. It's been appreciated. Thank you for having us here.

Deanne Sole 29:37
Yeah, and everybody who's listening to this. I hope you get to join us again next time.